Episode 2
02 | Breaking Boundaries: Redefining Masculinity with The Dude Nation Podcast
In this episode of The Dude Nation podcast, hosts Adam Lamb and Ben Curtis delve into the depths of redefining masculinity in today’s society.
Join the Nation and step into the circle.
The central theme is challenging traditional stereotypes by advocating for authenticity, vulnerability, and empathy in men.
The hosts create a safe space for men to explore emotional intelligence, mental health, relationships, and self-discovery through candid discussions and personal anecdotes.
This episode underscores the importance of open conversations, self-care practices, setting boundaries, and addressing sensitive topics like grief, mental health, and suicide from a male perspective.
By encouraging uncomfortable discussions and sharing personal stories, Adam and Ben aim to dismantle societal expectations and foster healthy masculinity in a world plagued by loneliness.
Furthermore, the hosts highlight the creation of a men’s organization dedicated to providing support, tools, and a sense of community for personal growth.
They emphasize honesty, integrity, compassion, balance, and connection as essential to redefining healthy masculinity. Vulnerability, self-care, and seeking help when needed are crucial aspects of this transformative journey.
Join Adam and Ben as they navigate the complexities of modern masculinity, urging listeners to embrace vulnerability, cultivate deeper connections, and strive for personal growth in a world that often overlooks the importance of authenticity and emotional well-being.
For more information, check out The Dude Nation
Transcript
Welcome to the Dude Nation podcast where we explore the journey
Adam Lamb:of healthy masculinity in today's world.
Adam Lamb:My name is Adam Lamb, and I'm here with my co host Ben Curtis.
Adam Lamb:And we challenge traditional notions of manhood, and we wanna
Adam Lamb:inspire you to embrace authenticity, vulnerability, and empathy.
Adam Lamb:We offer a perspective in a society where masculinity stereotypes
Adam Lamb:often overshadow men's diverse experiences.
Adam Lamb:We explore emotional intelligence, mental health, relationships,
Adam Lamb:and self discovery.
Adam Lamb:Whether seeking guidance on your journey towards self improvement
Adam Lamb:or simply curious about what it means to be a modern man, the
Adam Lamb:Dude Nation podcast provides a safe space for exploration and growth.
Adam Lamb:Let's reclaim healthy masculinity together.
Adam Lamb:So Ben, why do you think it was important for us to start a podcast?
Adam Lamb:Doesn't the world have enough already?
Adam Lamb:We have quite a few,
Ben Curtis:but if we're going to reclaim healthy masculinity and part of
Ben Curtis:that is encouraging communication, we need men to talk and I wanna
Ben Curtis:learn more about healthy masculinity.
Ben Curtis:I wanna stay tuned in to what's going on.
Ben Curtis:And I also believe it's helpful to share our own story so that
Ben Curtis:other men and other humans can see what it looks like if we actually
Ben Curtis:start to embrace this and that we all have many of the same challenges.
Ben Curtis:I think it's an opportunity for us to start to get real, have
Ben Curtis:some more real talk from 2 men who are walking through the fire together.
Ben Curtis:And to me, a lot of that's healthy masculinity.
Ben Curtis:Like, we are here together, holding space for each other and sharing
Ben Curtis:ourselves unapologetically with the world.
Ben Curtis:So that's to me what serves it.
Ben Curtis:And I wouldn't have a podcast with anyone other than you.
Ben Curtis:You're the person who inspired me to do it in the first place.
Adam Lamb:Thanks, brother. I think it's also probably important to point
Adam Lamb:out, like some of the conversations that we'll be having on the
Adam Lamb:show are not necessarily comfortable ones And it was just last
Adam Lamb:week, it was reflected back to me that a person came up to me
Adam Lamb:and said they were very grateful for my kind of transparent and
Adam Lamb:vulnerable way of speaking about problems.
Adam Lamb:And that opened up a whole other conversation.
Adam Lamb:So it was a a wonderful experience and also very humbling to know
Adam Lamb:that something like that would lend with somebody and give them
Adam Lamb:an opportunity to talk about the challenges that they're having as well.
Adam Lamb:Very often, our conversations are on the surface and not really
Adam Lamb:digging any into anything.
Adam Lamb:And I think this is a great space to to dig into those stuff and
Adam Lamb:to really get some work done around some of the issues that are
Adam Lamb:plaguing us all, really.
Adam Lamb:It's probably important also to be able to reflect back to somebody
Adam Lamb:a clear vision of who they are and the problems that they're having
Adam Lamb:through our conversations.
Adam Lamb:There's a recognition that like, oh, yeah. Yeah.
Adam Lamb:I get that too. Yeah.
Adam Lamb:So to feel like you're not the only one.
Ben Curtis:Yeah. Thank you for saying that.
Ben Curtis:There's a loneliness epidemic. Right?
Ben Curtis:We're seeing how many men don't have friends today or have 5 or
Ben Curtis:less, which is a huge decline.
Ben Curtis:And we're also not talking about our feelings and the stuff that
Ben Curtis:we're all facing, which is some of the challenging things.
Ben Curtis:If we're not actually talking about it, then we can't heal or
Ben Curtis:move through it.
Ben Curtis:So I appreciate that you talked about the uncomfortable conversations as well. Mhmm.
Adam Lamb:And
Ben Curtis:that we're actually creating a safe space for men to start to
Ben Curtis:dip their toes in the water a little bit more.
Ben Curtis:What would it mean to have a little bit more community?
Ben Curtis:What would it mean to be less lonely?
Ben Curtis:Even entrepreneurs are facing loneliness today.
Ben Curtis:This isn't just a man thing.
Ben Curtis:This is like a universe thing.
Ben Curtis:So it's a human experience as so many of us face life and death every day.
Ben Curtis:I think it's important to talk about it and men mostly aren't,
Ben Curtis:but I've also found that we're some of the greatest listeners.
Ben Curtis:And so as we can practice holding space and listening to each
Ben Curtis:other, that maybe we can actually grow together.
Adam Lamb:I agree completely.
Adam Lamb:And I think the other thing is there may be some confusion around
Adam Lamb:what healthy masculinity is. Right?
Adam Lamb:Because there's so much in the median.
Adam Lamb:I just saw the word toxic and masculinity used in the same sentence
Adam Lamb:yesterday in a leading, publication.
Adam Lamb:So there's a whole lot of I think there's probably some guys out
Adam Lamb:there who, for lack of a better word, wanna keep their heads down
Adam Lamb:in the foxhole for fear of getting called out as anything other
Adam Lamb:than a whole and complete human being who happens to be masculine
Adam Lamb:as a way of, like, defense mechanism.
Adam Lamb:And they also recognize that for us, sometimes we don't talk about
Adam Lamb:things when there's not a solution that's present.
Adam Lamb:Like we like to be able to fix stuff.
Adam Lamb:So there's no point in talking about it if you can't fix it.
Adam Lamb:And I've found that the only time I can ever quote unquote fix
Adam Lamb:anything is when I can talk like very often the solution will
Adam Lamb:provide itself in the conversation. If
Ben Curtis:Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
Ben Curtis:Thank you for that perspective.
Ben Curtis:I'm already glad that I'm learning from you already.
Adam Lamb:And what and what would you consider to be your version of healthy masculinity?
Adam Lamb:Because I also identify, love the fact that this is something
Adam Lamb:that's even though most of us share this masculine trait that
Adam Lamb:our version of healthy masculinity can look a little bit than someone else's.
Ben Curtis:Yeah. That's a great question, Adam.
Ben Curtis:And I'm gonna ask you that and have you think about it as I start
Ben Curtis:to answer it as well, anyone who's listening right now, because
Ben Curtis:it's totally subjective and you actually get to create it for yourself.
Ben Curtis:And as many men out as are out there could be that many different
Ben Curtis:definitions of healthy masculinity.
Ben Curtis:And not just men. Right?
Ben Curtis:This affects everyone.
Ben Curtis:For me, healthy masculinity, I like to talk about it like a bowling lane.
Ben Curtis:Healthy masculinity is, a balance of integrity, which is like
Ben Curtis:how smooth the floor is, how well it's polished structure, perhaps
Ben Curtis:the bumpers or the gutters on either side that actually you have
Ben Curtis:clear lines of where to go.
Ben Curtis:And that space for the femininity to arise, which is the creativity,
Ben Curtis:the flow, the chaos, which is an important part well, the spontaneity
Ben Curtis:and that power and harnessing it.
Ben Curtis:So to bring it into real life terms of what it's like human beings,
Ben Curtis:not just a bowling ball, for me, it's being honest.
Ben Curtis:It's being my word, having integrity. It's compassion. It's balance.
Ben Curtis:It's discipline and power, and
Ben Curtis:I also believe it's a birthright.
Ben Curtis:Healthy masculinity is something that's our birthright that we
Ben Curtis:don't have to subscribe to what society is telling us that we
Ben Curtis:actually get to create it newly.
Ben Curtis:And it's also connection, encourage vulnerability, authentic connection,
Ben Curtis:being able to actually be real, to talk about those things, to
Ben Curtis:move through them.
Ben Curtis:It doesn't mean we don't have fear.
Ben Curtis:It means we're able to take action and we don't do it alone.
Ben Curtis:Those are all the important things for me around it.
Ben Curtis:What about for you, Adam?
Adam Lamb:You hit upon a lot of them.
Adam Lamb:I reference it as how much of my day can I walk around with an open heart?
Adam Lamb:What's the percentage of the time I spent today with an open heart
Adam Lamb:as opposed to being closed down or shut down for out of some reaction to fear.
Adam Lamb:And of course, anger is only a reflection of fear.
Adam Lamb:So for me, that's incredibly important, and everything else is negotiable.
Adam Lamb:I always get a little bit, nervous around conversations around
Adam Lamb:integrity only because that I've taken part in some programs where
Adam Lamb:integrity is the word and the concept is used like a whipping
Adam Lamb:post for some folks.
Ben Curtis:Yeah. And how many of us use it to whip ourselves still?
Adam Lamb:Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Adam Lamb:It's it's never good enough.
Adam Lamb:And I have said in the past that my addiction was truly to my
Adam Lamb:negative self talk.
Adam Lamb:Everything else was just a tool to get me to that place.
Adam Lamb:And so, very conscious of my internal dialogue.
Adam Lamb:And I work very diligently at making sure that it's as positive
Adam Lamb:and reaffirming as possible given my actions or that day.
Adam Lamb:But I also understand that there's a certain amount of tenderness
Adam Lamb:and kindness that that I get to bestow on myself because I don't
Adam Lamb:know if anybody else out there can relate to this, but I can have
Adam Lamb:a tendency of being really hard on myself.
Adam Lamb:And that's not a positive thing for me or for anybody. So No.
Adam Lamb:I don't relate
Ben Curtis:to that at all.
Adam Lamb:The idea of tenderness and kindness in those words, I choose very
Adam Lamb:deliberately because I think generally speaking, most of us would
Adam Lamb:be very tender and kind to somebody who was having a difficult time.
Adam Lamb:And we're always willing to help others.
Adam Lamb:And yet for us, we're usually the last to to receive that help from ourselves.
Ben Curtis:Yes. Thank you so much for speaking to that too.
Ben Curtis:So many of us men think I, I believe I've seen and talked to many
Ben Curtis:who say a healthy masculinity is like being, being willing to
Ben Curtis:be of service so much so that you're always giving your the shirt
Ben Curtis:off your back for someone.
Ben Curtis:But many of those men are not actually taking care of themselves too.
Ben Curtis:So it's one thing to give you the shirt off your back, but if
Ben Curtis:you're not putting the oxygen mask on yourself first, then you
Ben Curtis:have nothing to give.
Ben Curtis:You're giving from a place of emptiness.
Ben Curtis:And suddenly you've gone from being the hero to the victim because
Ben Curtis:you're not well, or you're stressed out, or you're not available
Ben Curtis:for your family, or you have an illness or die an early death
Ben Curtis:as a result of not caring for yourself first.
Ben Curtis:So if we wanna be providers, I think a lot of the missing is how
Ben Curtis:we're actually providing for ourselves, how we're treating ourselves.
Ben Curtis:We think we've, it's always gotta be, it's never enough.
Ben Curtis:I hear that from a lot of fathers and partners as well.
Ben Curtis:Like it's never enough.
Ben Curtis:Like if it's never enough, but how many of us are starting to
Ben Curtis:give to ourselves and creating those boundaries say, no, actually
Ben Curtis:this is my time.
Ben Curtis:And if we're training other people how to treat us, where are
Ben Curtis:we just running around?
Ben Curtis:Like life's an emergency and we always have to be the hero as well.
Ben Curtis:Can we pull back and start to give ourselves what we need a little
Ben Curtis:bit or just develop some healthier boundaries?
Ben Curtis:And what are our needs?
Ben Curtis:Most of us, I don't think even know.
Ben Curtis:Can we take time to to tap into that?
Adam Lamb:Well, because the truth is there's never, there's never really
Adam Lamb:a good reason to take care of yourself.
Adam Lamb:There's so many other things that can be done.
Adam Lamb:And gosh, time is short already.
Adam Lamb:So why would we use any focus on that when there's something else
Adam Lamb:that can be fixed as it were.
Adam Lamb:But I'm really excited about this podcast.
Adam Lamb:I know that we've got some incredible topics that we're gonna be doing.
Adam Lamb:This podcast is gonna be coming out weekly, and we're gonna be
Adam Lamb:tackling a particular topic for the month.
Adam Lamb:So that might include, conversations between Ben and I.
Adam Lamb:It might be a solo episode.
Adam Lamb:We're also gonna include some amazing guests on the podcast as
Adam Lamb:well, but some of the topics that we're gonna be going over men's
Adam Lamb:trauma, where it comes from, how to deal with it, loneliness, relationships.
Adam Lamb:That'll be a that'll be a great month because there's the relationship
Adam Lamb:to self and others.
Adam Lamb:There's also marriage, divorce, transitions, grief and death, and mourning.
Adam Lamb:And we're going to talk about the big D and all the little d's
Adam Lamb:that we encounter in our lives as being an equitable member of
Adam Lamb:the human race and the things that are set up for us.
Adam Lamb:We're all gonna have parents who are gonna pass away.
Adam Lamb:Some of us will have children that pass away.
Adam Lamb:Well, almost all of us will have a very, very significant relationship end.
Adam Lamb:And so these are a lot of the things that we're all dealing with,
Adam Lamb:fatherhood, stress management, money management.
Adam Lamb:Another big topic is gonna be purpose.
Adam Lamb:I'm always fascinated by the guys who revel in the fact that they're
Adam Lamb:gonna be retired and then don't last another 10 years out of retirement
Adam Lamb:because they've somehow lost their purpose and don't necessarily
Adam Lamb:know what to do with themselves anymore, and then self care and self sabotage.
Adam Lamb:So what are the topics that you're really excited to dig into?
Ben Curtis:I love me some self care talk because I was the self sabotage.
Ben Curtis:I really owned that.
Ben Curtis:I lived it.
Ben Curtis:I destroyed a lot of relationships with including ones with myself
Ben Curtis:and other people in my life.
Ben Curtis:And I've seen the difference and walk to walk through some self
Ben Curtis:care that has changed my life.
Ben Curtis:And I still show up for other people.
Ben Curtis:It's not like I spend hours a day.
Ben Curtis:I'm talking about less than an hour a day and then taking some
Ben Curtis:things throughout my day.
Ben Curtis:The other thing is death.
Ben Curtis:I know that can be even a lot to hear for some of you who aren't
Ben Curtis:used to talking about it, but death is a rite of passage.
Ben Curtis:And we all go through it.
Ben Curtis:Having lost my father, not to a few years ago, it still is like yesterday.
Ben Curtis:And I know Adam, when I'm talking to you, we get to talk about
Ben Curtis:our fathers and actually carry that.
Ben Curtis:And it's something that we all will live through.
Ben Curtis:Hopefully, we'll outlive our parents. Yeah.
Ben Curtis:And then any of us who have been around children or brought children
Ben Curtis:into the world or known a woman or been in any kind of relationship
Ben Curtis:with a birth giving human, that human, if they've tried to give
Ben Curtis:birth, chances are, 1 out of 3 of them have had a have had a death,
Ben Curtis:and there's a man connected their sperm connected to that death.
Ben Curtis:And whether we are in that relationship intimately or not, it affects us.
Ben Curtis:And it's a trauma and it's one of those things.
Ben Curtis:So having been through that as well, I just think there's so much
Ben Curtis:that we're not talking about that could heal us if we just lifted
Ben Curtis:these burdens a little bit more.
Ben Curtis:And I think also, learning how to love ourselves and love our
Ben Curtis:life a a little bit more.
Ben Curtis:So some of that self care stuff in there too.
Ben Curtis:But what are the ones that really speak to you, Adam?
Adam Lamb:Well, of course, one that comes up a lot in my work is sorrow and mourning.
Adam Lamb:And the fact that in our present society, that's not anything
Adam Lamb:that we value at all.
Adam Lamb:As a matter of fact, there's all kinds of phrase, suck it up sunshine,
Adam Lamb:let's get moving.
Adam Lamb:Some people have a time clock or a calendar on what proper morning
Adam Lamb:period would look like.
Adam Lamb:And for men, again, it's not anything that's really valued amongst men.
Adam Lamb:This idea of, like, when there's loss, we all need time to process
Adam Lamb:that, and it looks differently for everybody.
Adam Lamb:So I'm really curious to get into that.
Adam Lamb:And one thing that's not on the list that we probably should talk
Adam Lamb:about at some point in the show is, of course, mental health,
Adam Lamb:wellness and suicide because Yeah.
Adam Lamb:It's one of the one of the highest causes of death for men, especially
Adam Lamb:over the age of, I think, 60 now it's, the rates are incredibly
Adam Lamb:high and getting higher every day.
Adam Lamb:So there's something to speak to about men in their later years
Adam Lamb:and the decisions they make to either live or end their lives
Adam Lamb:up by their own hands.
Adam Lamb:So I don't know.
Adam Lamb:It's probably impossible to never know what, if any what's in
Adam Lamb:a person's mind at the moment where they make that decision.
Adam Lamb:But I do know what was in my mind years ago when I tried to commit suicide.
Adam Lamb:And I think it's something that I think we can speak to because
Adam Lamb:there are probably more than a few folks out there who at least
Adam Lamb:had the idea once in their life Yep.
Adam Lamb:And and there's nothing wrong with that.
Adam Lamb:Thank you for sharing.
Adam Lamb:What's wrong with the exact yeah.
Adam Lamb:Because it's like, there's we'll make sure there's trigger points.
Adam Lamb:People have resources because part of this conversation that we're
Adam Lamb:having ongoing is where do you find those resources when you're in need?
Adam Lamb:And and we wanna champion those who are out there providing those resources. Yeah.
Adam Lamb:So that'll be part of the conversation for sure.
Ben Curtis:I love that.
Ben Curtis:And this is part of why we created a men's organization is that
Ben Curtis:we could actually wrap a men like, wrap a circle around you, that
Ben Curtis:we could give you pretty much all the tools or value that you could handle.
Ben Curtis:We could provide that amount of support for you in community and
Ben Curtis:partnership and accountability and education, and just a space
Ben Curtis:to work through it.
Ben Curtis:And if not us, we've got incredible date myself, say Rolodex.
Ben Curtis:We've got incredible, like, community of health professionals
Ben Curtis:that we can connect you to.
Ben Curtis:If it's not us, we'll help you find a way.
Ben Curtis:And that's part of what this is about is creating solutions, creating
Ben Curtis:team, creating community.
Ben Curtis:We're here to learn with you and through the process as well.
Ben Curtis:And we can't wait for you to join us.
Ben Curtis:So tell someone, bring a friend.
Ben Curtis:You could invite your partner into this conversation each week.
Ben Curtis:If you, if it's something that you're not comfortable talking
Ben Curtis:about, invite someone to just listen with you.
Ben Curtis:And if there's a topic that you wanna hear about that we're not
Ben Curtis:covering or something you'd like to go deeper on, send us a message
Ben Curtis:and let us know because we really wanna add value to your life
Ben Curtis:and what matters to
Adam Lamb:you. Yeah. You can find us on all the social media channels on
Adam Lamb:the dude nation.
Adam Lamb:And if it's not organ if it's not our organization, we'll certainly
Adam Lamb:be bringing on leaders of other men's organizations for conversation as well.
Adam Lamb:As far as Ben and I are concerned, we don't care which organization
Adam Lamb:you join, but we are concerned that you actually avail yourself
Adam Lamb:of the community that exists already and, become part of an organization
Adam Lamb:that you can feel good about and, and be in service to another male.
Ben Curtis:Well, Adam, I feel like it's been a service to me just to get
Ben Curtis:to walk through this with you today and talk through it.
Ben Curtis:And I'm so grateful.
Ben Curtis:And if this is already making a difference for you, let us hear from you.
Ben Curtis:We wanna know who's listening and what matters what's on your heart.
Ben Curtis:And, Yeah, I'm excited for this journey.
Ben Curtis:It was just the beginning.
Ben Curtis:Here we go.
Adam Lamb:That was great, man. Can't wait.
Adam Lamb:That's it for this episode of the Dude Nation podcast.
Adam Lamb:Be part of the movement to redefine what it means to be a man
Adam Lamb:in today's world.
Adam Lamb:Let's reclaim healthy masculinity together And until next
Adam Lamb:week.